Episode 62 – Ground Zero with Lauren Ashcraft

Macro N Cheese – Episode 62 
Ground Zero with Lauren Ashcraft 
April 4, 2020 
 

Lauren Ashcraft [intro/music]  (00:00:02): 

I’m running so that every single person can have the representation that they deserve. And for 26 years, the status quo is just prioritizing the needs of corporations and the wealthiest people in our society. So many people are losing their health insurance.  

That is not a partisan issue. This isn’t me versus them, that’s all of us need to come together and fight for things that should be our rights as humans. 

Geoff Ginter [intro/music] (00:01:27): 

Now, let’s see if we can avoid the apocalypse altogether. Here’s another episode of Macro N Cheese with your host, Steve Grumbine. 

Steve Grumbine (00:01:34): 

All right. And this is Steve with Macro N Cheese. Today, I’m going to take a departure. Folks, I don’t normally go down this path. Full disclosure – I don’t typically talk to politicians. I don’t typically talk to candidates because I’m largely focused on just the economics of it all.  

And I always want to be able to build up good candidates when they have a good platform and when they understand the economics that powers that platform. So I always have to stay clear of them because so few get it. That said, Andres Bernal reached out to me and said, Steve, you’ve really got to get this wonderful person on your show.  

Her name is Lauren Ashcraft, and Lauren is a candidate for the US house in New York, District 12. And just a little bit of background here. She earned her bachelor’s degree in international relations in German from West Virginia University in 2010, she’s got a Master’s Degree in public administration from the University of Pittsburgh in 2012.  

And this is where it gets really fun. Ashcraft‘s career experience includes working as a policy analyst, a program manager, a project manager, and a data analyst. For those of you who follow me at all you know, I’ve been program and project managing and scrumming it up for as long as I can remember. So this is someone who, all right, let’s get her in here.  

She’s also a board member and volunteer with the Women’s March Alliance and a founder of Collection Box Comedy. And she is a lead with the Middle Collegiate Church Justice Committee. So with that in mind, let me welcome my guest. Lauren, welcome to the show. 

Ashcraft (00:03:12): 

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’m really honored and just honored to be on your show and to also communicate with your awesome listeners. 

Grumbine (00:03:20): 

Okay. So let’s cut through it. You’re a comedian. Where does this comedy stuff come from? Talk to me. 

Ashcraft (00:03:27): 

So my life is a series of strange stories. So you’ll probably learn much more about the whole series of my life throughout this podcast, but my move to New York, not knowing basically anyone here, I really wanted to be here.  

I spammed all my resumes out here. And finally one job said, yes. So I moved out here, got a truck, pulled up to my six floor walk-up apartment and I didn’t know anyone. So I found a Groupon Class, just an acting class, Cedric Russell Acting Academy, actually. And I took that class.  

I met a lot of people, some of them who were actually on my campaign team. I made my first friends from taking this class. Failed at acting terribly. I make fun of myself a lot in comedy, because if you go to my profile, you’ll see it for yourself. I say that I suffer from resting pleasant face.  

So my face does not always show the emotions that I’m feeling; it’s just broken. And I think that that will help me a lot in Congress when I’m ripping apart CEOs that are trying to get our money in bailouts. And I will say no. So I was kindly recommended by one of my teachers that I try comedy next because they noticed that I liked to kind of crack jokes on stage and failed miserably at actually acting.  

So I was like, sure. I took a class at Gotham Comedy Club and made another group of friends from that class who are also, some of them are on my team. And I learned that it was a great way for me to express a lot of these thoughts that I was having. 

I see the world differently than a lot of people. And if you follow me on social media, you’ll kind of get clued into that. And I’m learning to express myself. There’s a lot of frustrating stuff going on and to view it sometimes with humor and to be able to kind of make sharp jabs about it is something that I’m happy to do.  

And especially now when we’re experiencing such a serious and traumatic crisis in our economy and also in our society. If we can find any bit of humor in it and if I can help to lead us in a productive and efficient way, then I’m just really happy to do that. 

Grumbine (00:06:02): 

Well, that’s great. That’s fantastic. So let’s go. How did you end up deciding to run for Congress? What was your motivating factor there? 

Ashcraft (00:06:13): 

There have been a lot of different things in my life that all kind of came together. So my family is a huge motivation for me. And I just grew up understanding that the government isn’t there for you. And it took me a long time to realize that that’s wrong and that we should expect more.  

So like on one side of my family, my grandfather was literally killed by corporate greed in a coal mining accident and left my grandmother a widow, trying to survive off of the really small Social Security check she was left and a plot of land that she used to try to farm. A 

nd so many people have just understood that to survive in this country you just have to put your head down and get through it, but she survived off of Social Security, which so many people in our administration and in Congress and in the Senate – so many people have over and over again called for cuts to Social Security.  

And I just get so angry because I look at the fact that it’s funded – If you make over $132,900 per year, then nothing above that limit is taxed for Social Security. And first of all, we can get into MMT and that taxes don’t directly fund the programs that we need.  

But whenever I talk about the fact that people are calling for cuts to it is absolutely offensive. And also that we aren’t making billionaires pay their fair share to help minimize wealth inequality. And just the excuses are complete garbage – excuses saying we don’t have the money to ensure that people like my family can survive unforeseeable circumstances.  

It’s illogical and it makes no sense. That’s just one side of my family. And also my grandmother was a Japanese immigrant. And while she was trying to just survive in general was facing a lot of xenophobia and racism for being from Japan. And that’s something we’re seeing a lot of. Asian-Americans are experiencing a lot of xenophobia and racism, especially now during the COVID-19 crisis.  

And it’s something we haven’t resolved. And it’s been sitting there as part of our society that you are punished for being an immigrant and you’re punished for not being white in so many ways. And then on the other side of my family, my grandfather fell and unfortunately became quadriplegic when I was a kid.  

And I just grew up seeing, yeah, the costs for making the family home wheelchair accessible, were the burden of my family. And hiring a caretaker wasn’t an option so everyone in my family became the caretaker. And if you’re surviving off of disability, then you’re surviving In abject poverty because the government doesn’t prioritize making sure that you get a livable amount of money.  

So that’s how I understood the world — is that we’re totally forgotten. And got to New York and I’ve been living in New York’s 12th Congressional District, which is the epitome of wealth inequality. I’m looking out my window and I see Queensbridge, which is the largest public housing complex in the western hemisphere.  

And I’ve spent a lot of time there and see with my own eyes that the buildings are in such a state of disrepair. And my neighbors complain about rat infestations. And I’ve seen with my own eyes that people that have disabilities live on the top floor and the elevator doesn’t work. So they crawl up the stairs. Yeah. I carry around a lot of anger and that’s why I’m running for office.  

I’m running so that every single person can have the representation that they deserve. And for 26 years, my district, the status quo is just prioritizing the needs of corporations and the wealthiest people in our society. And I am fighting so that everyday people and people who’ve gone ignored as part of the status quo finally are empowered and elevated and have that voice. 

Grumbine (00:11:01): 

Well, that’s very powerful. So you get to see the rats, you get to see the wealth inequality, you get to see life in the streets. And at the same time, you’ve had plenty of family experiences that show you exactly how, you know, how cruddy it can be in this country. And so you’ve got an opportunity, it looks like, to make a difference.  

And I think that from my vantage point over the years, watching the progressive movement in general, stay stuck in neutral, have great ideas but have absolutely no concept of how to enable them to come to be. It’s a lot of shoulds and not a lot of ability to execute.  

And I think that one of the things that I’ve seen with the Bernie Sanders movement is that a lot of people have been not only empowered, but they’ve also been given tools to which to actually execute. And it sounds like you come from that side of the fence. Can you talk a little bit about how Bernie Sanders may have impacted your Progressive credentials and some of the reasons why you’re running? 

Ashcraft (00:12:08): 

Yeah, totally. Just as you mentioned and read in my bio, I’ve worked for huge corporations as a project manager. And as I was doing that, the first time that I really heard Bernie Sanders’ message was in 2015 when he was first running in the presidential primary.  

I was working for a huge corporation at the time. And him pointing out that corporations kind of own everything by throwing corporate PAC money at all of our representatives, it hit me really hard and you’re working really long hours and working to pay your rent, and trying to survive, and the rent in New York’s 12th Congressional District is ridiculous and it keeps getting higher too.  

So that was all hitting me at once, and it was really a moment where I realized it’s not Republican versus Democrat. It’s all of us versus the top 1%. That was a serious awakening for me. And as I continued to work, I just became more and more, I guess, bitter, if I’m being completely honest, and working for a big bank is where I became a democratic socialist.  

And I saw how the Trump tax cuts and handouts to these huge corporations became the bonuses and salaries of senior executives and CEOs and how the government just handed all these companies money that became stock buybacks, and in multiple different financial institutions I worked in, I saw every day, you know, messages about “Oh, like our profits down” or like, “Oh no, we’re having to make cuts and layoffs.”  

And I would see people would stop coming into work because their job would end and people would get relocated out of New York City because it’s cheaper – and nothing makes sense. Whenever you think about the fact that some of these companies were able to increase their profits by billions of dollars and it ended up showing up in the paychecks of the people at the very top, but it doesn’t trickle down and workers did not see that money.  

It’s just so frustrating. You can see these corporations as one entity, but the people working in them are also struggling. In my district alone, about 15% of the people work in financial institutions, which are huge. And my district is struggling. And whenever people view New York’s 12th Congressional District as a wealthy one, they’re thinking about a very specific part of the district.  

That isn’t where I’m sitting. I’m in Long Island City. We’re struggling. And all of this comes together. It started with Bernie Sanders speaking his truth, and this movement is growing and it’s not just Bernie. Now it’s entire generation of people running people-powered campaigns because they refuse to have that kind of influence in their politics. And I really thank him for that and for building this movement for all of us. 

Grumbine (00:15:45): 

So you got to ask yourself a question, someone like yourself, steps in there, and you say straight up you’re bitter and you’re willing to take action. I’m telling you right now, I come at this – I’m like a bitter sweet tart. There’s no sweet, just tart. And I think to myself, I’ve been through so much as a human being, just as a regular guy, a father, a guy who’s got two Master’s Degrees and have suffered the pain of the last financial crisis. 

And I think to myself, I’m a lucky guy. I have been bailed out. My mom and dad had, I wouldn’t say they had means, but they defended me. They protected me. And so many in society, not only have no protection, but they are stuck looking around without a boat, without an oar, without any way of getting through this. 

And our society is still busy pointing at them, telling them they should have done better, making better choices, shame on them for not being better. Victim blaming victim shaming. And this entire society has become focused on blaming the little guy for why they haven’t done better in this world.  

And I think based on Bernie Sanders candidacy, going back to 2015, and really if you followed him for the last 40 years, you know that this is not anything new. He has been pointing this out and here you are coming into this movement as a democratic socialist.  

And you’re saying to yourself, I see this too. Are people all starting to see this? Where’s the Delta? Why are people not – or are they? Are people seeing this in enough numbers to be able to make a difference? 

Ashcraft (00:17:30): 

I truly believe yes. And the best thing we can do is continue to welcome people to the movement. And I know the primary is scary and we’re seeing a lot of momentum for Biden’s campaign right now. But what we have to do is realize that this movement doesn’t stop or start with Bernie getting the nomination.  

It continues with each and every one of us fighting every single day. And I come from steel and coal country. I’ve had really tough conversations with people who are staunch Republicans. And by the end of it, they’re on board with Medicare for All, because the problems we’re facing right now as a society are not partisan.  

And the sooner we realize that the better the problems we’re facing right now are life versus death. In my district alone, there are 23,000 people without health insurance at all – and there are thousands more people who are under-insured, who are still afraid to go to the doctor for the healthcare that they need.  

And whenever I think about the fact, that’s my district. Across this country, there are so many people dying from rationing their medication. And I know there are a lot of people that say things like, well, I like my insurance, my private health insurance is fine.  

We are facing an extreme amount of layoffs right now, which mean that amidst this crisis – which is a pandemic that’s killing people – so many people are losing their health insurance. That is not a partian issue. This isn’t me versus them.  

That’s all of us need to come together and fight for things that should be our rights as humans and healthcare is just one very obvious example of that. But we all share a planet. We should all come together and fight for the future of the planet as well.  

So that’s really what I’m seeing is I am scared and sad about where this presidential primary is headed, but I’m also just seeing such a great amount of hope in the grassroots campaigns that I am following and partnering with because we’re not dropping the ball.  

We’re still fighting harder than ever. And people are still joining the movement no matter what. So the best thing that we can do is just continue to talk with people across party lines and across lines in our own party and make sure that we’re welcoming. 

Grumbine (00:20:17): 

Do you feel like the Democratic Party has a place in it for progressives? Do you feel that progressives are being heard? Do you feel that the establishment sees us more as a virus, dare I say, that needs to be purged? Or do you see them as seeing us as, “Hey, they’re the future and we need to embrace them”? 

Ashcraft (00:20:41): 

Hmm. That’s honestly a question I’m asking myself right now and it scares me. I’m running as a Democrat because I believe that if enough of us come together, we can change the party for the better. I have personally felt a lot of backlash for the awareness that I raise.  

And I see the backlash with how the primary’s going and the consolidation behind somebody who hasn’t traditionally fought for the values that we have. And I have that question myself and I have to believe that we can do this together. If not, let’s see how the 2020 cycle wraps up and let’s talk about it.  

But right now I’m registered Democrat. I haven’t always been, my political journey has been one that has had some twists and turns and I’m proud of it. But I have that question. I hope that we can change the party for the better and our numbers don’t lie.  

We are a movement and we have strong values. And man, I wish I could look into a crystal ball and see where we’re headed but what I do know is that we’re not going anywhere. So no matter which way things turn, I think we’re in this together.  

And we absolutely need to make sure we support grassroots candidates – not just me, but across this entire country running – to make sure that we get the big money out of politics and that we prioritize people over corporations, especially now.  

So what we can do, anyone who’s listening on the phone, what we can do is just continue to show our support. If you are willing and able to donate a dollar to candidates that inspire you, that aren’t taking corporate pack money.  

That’s the one really good way to fight back, spreading the word, making sure that we’re continuing to educate others, that haven’t joined the “Not me, us” movement and just make a pledge to yourselves and to us and to everyone else. We’re not going anywhere.  

What that looks like I’m not sure, but I know that we will continue to fight really hard and will continue to change things. And no major revolution ever happened easily. It happened with really persistent groups of people that continued to grow and continued to fight back. And if this weren’t worth it, it would be easier. But it is. 

Grumbine (00:23:22): 

I love that. One of the things in my mind, I’m clearly not a partisan here. I’m a progressive in general, period. And wherever that takes me is where my journey goes. But I see us as a movement – literally as a movement. And I think politics is only one small aspect of a movement.  

I think that there’s a lot of room to work within the political space, but as a movement, there’s a lot of, I don’t like the word intersectionality here, because I think there’s a real valid place for that.  

But intersectional in terms of multilayered aspects of this movement, it’s not just economic, it’s not just social; it’s spiritual, it’s everything from the news we read to the sitcoms we watch to the way we play and hang out with our friends and the things that we do to fill our spare time.  

And it’s not just “Not me, us.” I think it’s bigger than people realize. This movement itself contains so many game-changers. What has been your experience as a person within the movement, as these things are coming to light, as these moments are happening, as the struggle continues, what are some of the biggest “aha” moments you’ve had? 

Ashcraft (00:24:39): 

Hmm. I just see, like, especially now all of the issues that we’re fighting are just so amplified. Everything’s amplified by the coronavirus, which we couldn’t have even imagined. Running for office the first time I couldn’t have imagined everything coming together and blowing up and becoming so extreme in the last quarter of it.  

And it’s just highlighting why we’re doing this. Just dissecting the bill for coronavirus relief it’s just so obvious: lobbyists saw the bill before we did and had a great amount of influence regarding what it looked like.  

And here we’re getting thrown maybe $1,200 a person if you meet certain criteria and thinking about the fact that a lot of the bill is focused around relief of huge corporations, and not specifying that these corporations can’t just lay off thousands and thousands of people as part of the conditions, it’s astounding.  

And knowing that if you go to the doctor right now, cause you have coronavirus and you try to get tested, you ended up with a $34,000 bill if you don’t have insurance. And yeah, and thinking about the fact that our rent is due next week and people who’ve lost their jobs and lost their sources of income, we don’t have any answers. I wish we did.  

I’m telling people to call our governor and support the Cancel Rent bill, but the federal government didn’t answer that question. We don’t have answers. And what we’re doing as a campaign for example, is directing people towards sources of cash assistance that we know of, but it’s just highlighting that we don‘t have people in office that are fighting for us, they’re fighting for their big corporate donors and it’s just so disgusting. 

Grumbine (00:26:54): 

I second that my next question, I guess is, you know, being that you’re in New York and you see the inequality, I understand it’s a bit of a dystopian horror novel right now that New York has been shut down.  

People are seeing it’s surreal, it’s just very different, the whole vibe – everything about it is different. And you know, with New York being kind of the epicenter of the virus in America, tell us a little bit about what it’s like to be in New York right now. 

Ashcraft (00:27:26): 

It’s scary. I went to give blood the other day. Unfortunately it wasn’t able to long story. I hit my face on a bus door and my face was bleeding by the time I got to the blood donation center. And that’s just very typically me, sorry for the side story. So I was outside the other day trying to do something and it was really, really empty and it really hit me.  

I don’t really have the words for it. I’m glad that people are deciding to stay in. It’s crazy, It’s really crazy. But I think the fact that we now have more Corona virus cases than any other country on earth and the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in the United States is here. I just feel really sad. I feel sad for everybody who’s worried about paying rent.  

I literally have team members that don’t know if they have coronavirus because they can’t get a test, but they’re feeling really miserable. And whenever they think about going to the nearest hospital and waiting multiple hours in line to get the tests that are available, it’s so ridiculous. Coronavirus, the way that I’m hearing, you know, how people are feeling when they’re experiencing it, it’s worse than the flu.  

From my understanding, you can’t sit up, you just feel terrible and expecting them to get up and wait in line for hours. Again, it’s just a very visual representation of where we stand in our representatives eyes, were not prepared. There wasn’t any foresight.  

I know the Trump administration were missing some real key people that should be in leadership positions but he’s had some real problems with turnover for obvious reasons. And we’re just so not focused on human lives.  

There are quite literally are calls from governors and federal representatives calling for people to put their lives on the line to save our economy. And you and I both know the way to save the economy is for the federal government to spend the money on us. Yeah.  

To make sure that we have the cash that we need to survive. And we still do have purchasing power, but we’re seeing with the latest bill, we’re set up to have to keep bailing corporations out because we don’t have the cash to be their customers right now. We can’t even pay our rent.  

So what we’re doing is setting it up so that we have to keep sending money in loans to corporations while the rest of us are struggling to survive. And so that’s why we need people in office that understand MMT and that we do have the ability to spend on everything that should be our priority, and our priority should be people.  

And we need to throw trickle down economics so far out the window and then send someone down and step on it. I don’t understand why we keep trying trickle down other than the fact that CEOs keep throwing money at our politicians and they keep pretending it’s going to work.  

But we have seen over and over that trickle down economics don’t trickle down. They become paychecks and vacations and raises in stock, buy backs for CEOs and people who like us struggled to survive. And we’re just seeing that all amplified right now. [inaudible] 

Intermission (00:31:35): 

You are listening to Macro N cheese, a podcast brought to you by Real Progressives, a nonprofit organization dedicated to teaching the masses about MMT or Modern Monetary Theory. Please help our efforts and become a monthly donor at PayPal or Patreon. Like, and follow our pages on Facebook and YouTube and follow us on Periscope, Twitter and Instagram. 

Grumbine (00:32:24): 

Yeah. I want to talk to you about the Federal Job Guarantee. Now I want to let you talk about it, but I want to frame it from my vantage point a little bit, because I probably have a slightly different angle on this, and I want to get your take on that. But see, I see the Federal Job Guarantee is so foundational to everything – start to finish, like I see it as such a big deal.  

Number one, the restructuring of society, the rebuilding of democracy at the local level, having people work collaboratively to decide what the local communities would like to fund, and so forth; and what jobs would be available, the idea of rights-based employment, as opposed to at the whim of Capital, and the whim of profit, and the idea of mobility – the ability to pick up and leave a bad situation.  

The idea to, at any given time, walk away from bad employment and have a living wage with benefits waiting for you; the idea of being able to mobilize mass number of people to meet needs like the Green New Deal, to provide transition strategies for polluting-based bad industry and so forth. I mean, the list is so incredibly long.  

But the one thing that I never thought of other than obviously mass unemployment depressions and stuff like that. But we never ever thought about how something like this would play out in the midst of a pandemic. It never even crossed my mind, but here we are. What are your thoughts on a Federal Job Guarantee and how might that impact your jurisdiction and New York as a whole? 

Ashcraft (00:34:04): 

Oh my gosh, I am so supportive of a Federal Jobs Guarantee and I didn’t realize what it even was. But as my family was the caretaker of my grandfather who suffered from an accident, all of us, my grandmother, my mom, my aunts, the family gave up everything and lost income from their jobs because that’s what was needed to make sure my grandfather was okay.  

And whenever I think of a Federal Jobs Guaranteed, people caring for others in their society and making sure that nobody is suffering alone, that should be one of our priorities. And under a Federal Jobs Guarantee, something like that would get paid a salary.  

And I think about New York right now, which is really service-industry based. I come from a comedy background. A lot of my comedy friends are really struggling — performing arts, visual arts, gig economy workers. It’s just everyone’s really struggling right now. And especially, and a lot of artistic and freelance and gig workers are concentrated here cause that’s really the heart of New York.  

And I think of a Jobs Guarantee the state and local governments, as you mentioned, can decide what jobs would be part of that in their regions. And I would see New York, the entertainment industry is a huge part of what we do. And it also is part of what makes us us and part of what makes our society so great.  

So there’s a really high likelihood that entertainment would be part of our Jobs Guarantee in this particular region. And that would mean that a lot of us who don’t know where our next paychecks would come from, or if we have a job at the end of this would have that answer right now.  

And one of the main things that I see when I post about my support of a Federal Jobs Guarantee is there’s this concept that it’s either that or something like UBI, or something like cash assistance. None of that has to be mutually exclusive.  

I support every single person getting the cash they need right now for the remainder and also after this crisis until we’re back on track, and I support a Federal Jobs Guarantee. And people also think that Federal Jobs Guarantee is them being handed a job that they’re forced to do that has nothing to do with what they’ve studied, and that’s also not true.  

A Federal Jobs Guarantee is an option that’s always available to you, that you have that in your back pocket. If I were working at a bank and going through the life crisis that I did realizing just how shitty these huge corporations are, I would have left a long time ago, but I didn’t know how I would pay my rent.  

And I also didn’t know how I’d have health insurance. Luckily right now I’m domestic partnered and have health insurance through him. And because I don’t have a job right now, I wouldn’t be okay if I didn’t have my partner right now. And those answers would be available with a Jobs Guarantee. You would have the benefits we need and we would have that job as an option, always. It wouldn’t go away. 

Grumbine (00:37:42): 

I think just throwing out some neat ideas that I spit ball, and I’d just get your feeling on this. You know, look at Flint, Michigan in the rust belt. And I say to myself, there’s no industry there. So what would you do with people? And we’re looking at a climate emergency and you start thinking, well, we have virtual work. 

We’re all closed down right now. Everybody’s working remote that does work. And those that aren’t able to work remote are laid off. That’s an opportunity to provide remote work, working from home, telework.  

There are so many things that technology has enabled for us that we literally don’t even think about, “Hey, this is an opportunity here.” And I think to myself, I know that New York consists of New York City and then everything else, and within that structure, the needs of New York City are very different than the New York counties and the State of New York.  

You look up North, as you get closer to Buffalo, where industry was once very rampant and then it kind of left the ghost behind, and Corning, New York and all these different places throughout the state. And this is typical throughout the entire nation.  

So as you’re talking about this stuff, you’re running for an opportunity here to be able to create policy that affects not just your hometown, but basically impacts the entire nation. Some of these things are, yeah, you’re thinking locally, but it’s actually a global situation.  

This is something that can serve every state. And really quite frankly, folks like Fadhal Kaboub, who are frequently on here from the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity talk about a Job Guarantee within developing nations as well.  

This is a very revolutionary approach to taking a buffer stock of what would have otherwise been unemployed people and giving them a job with not only dignity but benefits. And it sets the defacto standard that companies have to either meet or beat that, or they’re not getting you hired.  

And so I default almost creates a mandated legal union level support. It will not take the place at unions, but it does definitely change the game full swing. What are your thoughts on that? 

Ashcraft (00:40:05): 

I love it. And it’s a huge part of why I’m an advocate for this because so many people are just ball and chained to their workplaces for benefits or to pay their rent. And I know women who’ve endured decades of sexual harassment and just people who have been treated terribly, but they just don’t know what comes next or how they’re going to pay for anything.  

And they have families to feed. So just like you said, a Jobs Guarantee would be, you have an abusive boss – Bye, because I have something else waiting for me and we’re all guaranteed that. So where the federal government has failed us is they’ve failed to provide workers’ rights, which we need to fight for as well.  

But the Federal Jobs Guarantee in addition to actually putting into law workers’ rights that we deserve, like paid leave and benefits so that people like Jeff Bezos can’t crowdsource the funding he needs to pay for paid leave for Amazon workers, which by the way is ridiculous.  

That would just be mandated. You have to pay for paid leave. If you have a company anyway, that plus a Jobs Guarantee, which would give us all and out to leave abusive bosses and leave companies that shouldn’t probably exist. It’s just a guarantee for all of us to have that peace of mind and a way out.  

And like you said, it’s going to force all of these companies to start prioritizing how they treat workers and what they’re going to do to incentivize us actually wanting to be there, cause a lot of us never wanted to be there. 

Grumbine (00:41:57): 

That’s right. So flash forward, you’re in New York and you’ve got Cuomo who is basically getting a lot of publicity right now for his role here. I mean, this is a man who wanted to cut Medicaid and I look around at the establishment and Joe Biden’s got a history of saying he will absolutely not support Medicare For All.  

You’ve got Joe Biden’s historical record being ecstatic about cutting things from Social Security to every entitlement, I think is the recorded Joe Biden unedited version of the world. And this is standard with a lot of these folks. I mean, Hillary wanted a privatized Social Security.  

This is the neoliberal approach to economics. It’s the neoliberal approach to the world. How can we create a market as opposed to how can we serve the people? Even Elizabeth Warren came out and said, “I’m a capitalist to my bones. I love markets.” Where’s the relief?  

When do we start seeing citizens’ benefits start becoming part of the national conversation, one rep at a time versus this constant push back to, “Hey, how can we find some worthy capitalists to go ahead and milk us for every bit of profit we’re worth so that they can make money off of our suffering?”  

That’s literally what the markets-based approach is. I just don’t see a middle ground on that. I’m not sure I understand how it’s difficult to make this case publicly for people, but here we are, I’m watching it before us and lots of people are rejecting it. What is your take on that? How do we overcome that? 

Ashcraft (00:43:43): 

So I’ve seen this set and I really agree with it that we’ve been kind of in an abusive relationship with ourselves for a very long time. And I see that as someone who’s been in some bad relationships in my life and who’s gotten out of them. But whenever I look at the fact that we’re viewing Cuomo as some sort of savior right now, is it because he can string together words and make sentences?  

Is that really the bar that we have because we have such a clown in the White House that we see somebody saying some stuff and we’re like, wow, that’s a hero. We have to be okay with the fact, this is one of the things I through as I was exiting a bad relationship is we have to be okay with the fact that maybe we deserve better.  

And I’m frustrated seeing there are some pretty serious sexual assault allegations against Joe Biden that have come to light in the last few days, and I’m frustrated that we are on the path to have to choose between the complete and utter maniacal clown that is in the White House; and somebody who has called to cut Social Security; who has sexual assault allegations against him; and who until he was pressured during this presidential primary didn’t show any kind of support for things like the Green New Deal.  

And when are we going to get to the fact that maybe we deserve better? We deserve people who are standing up for us and fighting for us. And part of that I think is educating people about how we pay for things, because it’s not like a household budget and Pay-Go is bullshit.  

We don’t have to tax back a dollar for every dollar we spend. It’s okay to spend money on us, and that’s quite literally the only way that we’re going to get through this in one piece is if we have representatives that urgently understand this and prioritize giving us, the people, the relief that we need and the safety net that we need to survive. It’s literally life and death right now. 

Grumbine (00:46:14): 

So I want to throw something at you and I respect your opinion no matter what you say, but I want to lay something out there for you and see where we go with this. 

Ashcraft (00:46:23): 

Alright. 

Grumbine (00:46:24): 

One of the most important things that anyone can have is faith that the elections are free and fair, that their vote counts. And that I believe that voting should be a right. And I believe that voting should be a fundamental right that is not tampered with.  

Going back to the initial 2015-2016 run of Bernie versus Hillary, and I don’t want to relitigate that right now, but I want to set the stage for what a lot of voters today are feeling.  

They go back to that and the Democratic Party fought in court to say, “Hey, we’re a private corporation. We have no responsibility basically to listen to voters. We can hand select who we want to be the nominee.” And right now, currently they’re taking this to the Supreme Court, as we speak right now, the Supreme Court is going to hear this case.  

And a lot of people feel like Bernie Sanders came out and really poured on a ground game in Iowa, had the most votes, somehow or another was given fewer delegates to Pete Buttigieg, and then went to New Hampshire. And then New Hampshire, once again, Bernie Sanders beat all comers and Buttigieg was in second place this time.  

However, immediately after that Buttigieg ends up dropping out and endorsing Biden. Minutes later, others started dropping out and endorsing Biden. Biden didn’t even place in these places. South Carolina, he crushed Sanders. I mean, it wasn’t even funny. And people start saying, wait, what’s going on here? T 

his doesn’t smell like a fair election. This doesn’t feel like democracy. This doesn’t feel like my voice is being heard. It doesn’t feel like I count. It feels like they’re selecting Biden. The oligarchs have chosen Joe Biden.  

And I say to myself, that’s gotta be terribly difficult for someone like yourself who’s got passion, who’s got these great ideas, who really wants to make a difference, but you’re dealing with a public that’s steadily losing faith in our electoral process. And while we see some people rising up in the movement, a lot of them didn’t show up to the polls.  

And what would you do to strengthen democracy? How do you see this? Cause I’ll be perfectly honest with you as someone who eats, breathes and sleeps this movement, it’s a kick in the stomach. I see it, and I say, wow, this just doesn’t even make sense. How did this intersectional movement get sidetracked by a guy who barely came in sixth in Iowa? Didn’t even show up really. What’s your take on that? 

Ashcraft (00:49:10): 

Oh, our elections are not fair right now. And we’re seeing so many people lose their rights. I am a firm believer in the fact that every single American adult should be automatically registered and nothing should impact their ability to vote going forward. I know in New York, your voting status can go inactive, which is ridiculous.  

And also if people have been charged with crimes in many States, they lose their ability to vote. And it’s mind boggling. I think about the people who’ve been charged with crimes. We know for a fact that so many people go to prison for crimes they didn’t commit. And also I firmly believe in decriminalizing all drug usage and ending the war on drugs and legalizing marijuana, for example.  

And so many people should not be sitting in prison for the things that they have records for, and it’s so frustrating to think about the fact that you also lose your right to vote. Mass incarceration disproportionately is directed at communities of color and the war on drugs targets communities of color.  

And it’s just one of many ways that we go back to white property owning men were the first to be able to vote. And there’s still a system in place that tries to protect that notion. And we’re so beyond asking for voting rights. It’s time to actually put into law that every single American adult is always a voter and is automatically a voter. 

And there’s nothing that can change that. And then, thinking about how this outbreak is impacting voters. I know that for example, Joe Biden had encouraged his base to get out and vote in the last round of primaries. And that is sad to me, given that a lot of the poll workers have been diagnosed with Coronavirus.  

And right now, and also forever, we should be thinking about mail in ballots with return postage, to every single voter. There’s no reason that in this day and age you should have to physically go somewhere to express who you want to represent you. There are ways around it, other countries are doing it and we have the money.  

We can absolutely make sure that every single person who wants to vote is able to easily, but we haven’t prioritized that. And it begs the question of why and who does the status quo protect? And I think that answer’s pretty clear. 

Grumbine (00:52:17): 

It’s funny you say that because you want public elections, publicly funded elections. While we know that the federal government is the currency issuer. So we can do that. That’s not a problem. We know that we want to make voting accessible. That means that it should be a national holiday. We know we can fund that.  

We know that we need to have the appropriate checks and balances built into the system. There’s things like blockchain and other ways of doing this electronically, even that would protect the vote as well. So there’s so many things out there and we literally are not doing it and you nailed it. It’s protecting someone. It’s a status quo thing.  

And I want to say something else too and this is what struck me about Biden asking people to go out and vote. There’s a lot of really bad feelings out there on the internet. Twitter sphere is pretty harsh and there is a hashtag of this Coronavirus being the boomer remover, which is not a very nice thing to say at all.  

However, if you look at the demographics of who has supported Joe Biden, it is heavily skewed to boomer generation who are supporting him that are afraid of the red scare that are still living in McCarthyism, that are still worried about Russia and Vietnam and all these other things that have happened throughout history.  

And here he has told them go to the polls and these folks are the most vulnerable to the disease. Most vulnerable that could really truly be impacted by it. It just seems unconscionable to me. And that’s my own little narrative right there.  

But I think about that. And it’s terrifying to me that older people who tend to be passionate about voting see that as a right and a responsibility that was pushed into their heads for years. They go out there and they do it because that’s what they do. And lo and behold, the mortality rate for those older voters is significantly greater. Seems unconscionable to me. 

Ashcraft (00:54:11): 

It’s crazy. And also thinking about, for example, Trump calling for everything to go back to normal and for churches to be full on Easter. I’m speechless. Every once in a while, I think like I understand the full extent of the narcissism involved in a lot of these representatives, and I’m dumbfounded because they never cease to shock me with the next thing they say.  

And it’s, no our voting system’s not fair, and it’s disgusting to think that elections weren’t delayed until after we know this crisis is over and the curve is flattened and we protect our neighbors. But here we are. And you know, if you’re listening, request mail in ballots, request absentee ballots and get your vote in that way, and don’t put yourself at risk physically. Just in case your state doesn’t do the things they need to do to protect you.  

And yeah, voting isn’t fair in this country, and we don’t have the rights that we need and deserve, and we won’t get them until we vote these people out and replace them with every day diverse people that care about humans. I’m speechless. 

Grumbine (00:55:28): 

Absolutely. I guess the last thing I wanted to talk to you about, I actually joined in your virtual town hall earlier today. 

Ashcraft (00:55:36): 

Oh my gosh. 

Grumbine (00:55:38): 

Yeah. I was very impressed. And one of the things that jumped out at me is that I look around the world and I see Canada has given folks significant help. And you look over in Italy and they’ve stopped mortgage payments. And you look around the world at different things, and they’ve put a halt to these things — student debt, $1.6, $1.7 trillion right now and growing. I 

t’s a noose surround the kid’s neck without a Coronavirus, with the Coronavirus it’s ridiculous. Mortgages still underwater from 2008-2009, going through a second recession, possibly depression and no stop to mortgage payments or rent payments, etcetera. What do you think should be done regarding debts in general? I’m all for a Debt Jubilee, quite frankly, but where do you fall there? What do you think should be done? 

Ashcraft (00:56:31): 

I just feel like sometimes I wonder whether our representatives don’t understand how the budget works or if they don’t want us to understand how the budget works and how federal spending works. I don’t know which one it is. I would like to understand, but what we can do in the meantime, just like you’re doing is raise awareness about the fact that we can and deserve to have our priorities funded.  

And I see other countries doing that. They’re prioritizing people right now, and I see our federal government saying things like, “Oh, we don’t have the money. We don’t have the resources. We have to cut this and that.” And that’s absolutely not true. And I know I just released a video, if you go to my Twitter @voteAshcraft, you can see it’s my pinned video.  

And it’ll be there for a while. Where I just kind of walk-through what deficit spending actually means and why it’s not a bad thing. And I get a lot of anger from people that are like, “no, that’s not how it works, it causes inflation.”  

And the thing we can do is continue to have these conversations and continue to advocate, but there’s something there. And I don’t want to be any kind of conspiracy theorist, but there’s something there that learning how we fund things makes people really angry because we have to unlearn everything we’ve been taught and it’s scary.  

And I had a moment of like, “what the hell!” Whenever I was first learning about MMT, I had that moment as well, but seriously, stick with it. Keep learning, have conversations, ask questions. And maybe part of the anger is realizing that we are cheated all the time with this propaganda about not being able to afford things that keep us alive, but we absolutely can. 

Grumbine (00:58:37): 

You know, I started learning MMT about 10 years ago, and we started Real Progressives back in 2015, right as we found out Stephanie Kelton, who is Bernie’s economic advisor was going to be joining the campaign. And it was a very exciting time for us MMTers because I was more MMT than Bernie. I started MMT. I didn’t start Bernie. A 

nd so when I came into this, I was like, yeah, we got a champion. Yes, yes, yes. And lo and behold, I got a little frustrated with folks cause they were all tipping around the edges and I’m not a tip around the edges kind of guy. I’m a jump right into the deep end to make a cannon ball.  

And so I busted out, that was back in the day when people walked around with their cell phone and their earbuds on looking all coy all over the place, like the moving camera. Yeah, man, I’ve got some really important to tell you.  

And I was sitting there going, “taxes don’t fund spending!” And people were like what? What did he just say? So for years, you know, I had to deal with people going, this guy’s a damn idiot. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Haven’t you ever heard of hyperinflation in Zimbabwe.  

And so it’s been a while, five years as RP doing this, but it’s exciting to see candidates such as yourself. I can’t tell you how much hope that gives me as somebody who has been bludgeoned. Show me your credentials. Why should I listen to you?  

I have two master’s degrees and the amount to a pile of debt, nothing more than that because economics taught in college is full metal crap, and you have to unlearn more than you have to learn. And that moment that you’re talking about that “aha” moment that, “Oh, shit” moment.  

What it did to me was it took me from being a casual, you know, “sh** always just screwed up!”, and it made it so that I was like, “Oh my God, I have to tell everybody I possibly can that we’ve been lied to.” And I have not been able to shut up 24 by seven now for 10 years.  

And just seeing it happen, seeing Stephanie front and center, seeing people like Andres Bernal, advising people like yourself, giving you the tools that you can really craft a bold progressive agenda. This is big. This is how we win. And so I’m really grateful to have you on here. You provided me a tremendous amount of hope and I want to thank you for that line. 

Ashcraft (01:01:07): 

Oh my gosh. Thank you as well, because we actually, you know, this system doesn’t want people like us to get into Congress. And you providing us with this knowledge and also platform to discuss our campaigns and just allowing us to be part of this movement altogether, you’re doing a lot, too, for the movement and thank you as well. 

Grumbine (01:01:32): 

You better believe it. Alright with that, I want to thank you, Lauren. Folks, that was Lauren Ashcraft. And this is Steve Grumbine with Macro N Cheese, hoping you all join us next time. Have a great day everybody, we’re out. 

Ending Credits (01:01:50): 
 

Macro N  Cheese is produced by Andy Kennedy.  Descriptive writing by Virginia  Cotts  and promotional artwork by  Mindy Donham.  Macro N Cheese is publicly funded by our  Real  Progressive  Patreon account. If you would like to donate to  Macro N Cheese,  please  visit https://www.patreon.com/realprogressives