Stay Up To Date With News & Events
Copyright 2021 © All rights Reserved. Real Progressives
Powered by Modern Monetary Theory
When we talk about debt, it’s not just what someone owes, it’s also that someone has something owed to them. That’s the absurdity of the World Debt Clock. If the entire planet is in debt, who will we pay? Jupiter?
In the second half of our interview with Rohan Grey, he begins with the fact that all money is debt, but the cash in our pockets is not recorded as part of the national debt, which is concerned with debt instruments. He compares a $100 bill and a Treasury note to a checking account and a savings account. Only the latter pays interest.
When Rohan goes through the realities of this secondary market for government debt — wholly a creature of the Fed — it is clear that all worries are for naught. Most T bonds are rolled over, and if someone wants to cash out, there’s always someone else who wants them. If there arises a situation in which nobody wants to buy them, the central bank itself will do so.
The question of government debt comes up whenever there’s talk of the Green New Deal. Some have suggested it be financed by public banks, either because of political calculations or because those proposing it do not understand how money is created and believe we should take advantage of the huge pools of private wealth. Rohan points out the danger of both of those approaches. Lending rather than spending is a trap. If you need to be convinced of that, look no further than the student debt crisis. Rather than fund higher education, we said “let them eat loans!” As for the second option, well, the marrying of corporate financing and the public purpose is a good definition of fascism.
Asking the Green New Deal to give a return on the investment is entirely misguided. Do we ask school children to pay back the cost of their education by the time they turn 18? Do we insist that the military to turn a profit? When we try to turn public service into a revenue-generating endeavor, we distort the entire industry. Profit itself becomes the motive force, and the actual service takes a back seat.
Nowadays it’s impossible to have a conversation with a Modern Money Theorist without talking about the ubiquitous Yang gang and the UBI. Our objection can be summed up in the words of C. H. Douglas, an early creator of the UBI. His goal was to create “a democracy of consumers and an aristocracy of producers.” That says it all, doesn’t it? In their debate with Matt Bruenig in “In These Times,” Raul Carrillo and Rohan Grey expressed the demand for a world where the production process is as democratic and empowering for workers and average people as the consumption process.
Steve Grumbine often speaks of the job guarantee as a democracy enhancer. The community determines which work needs to be done. Democracy at the workplace is just as important as at the ballot box. Steve and Rohan talk about democratizing the fruits of intellectual labor as well as more traditional concepts of work. They address the hysteria about robots replacing all the workers. Certain jobs can be automated, however any job that requires human beings to interact with other human beings, by definition cannot be automated.
Some of our listeners may be surprised to learn that Rohan’s view of the job guarantee is significantly different from Warren Mosler’s. Tune in to find out how.
Rohan Grey is the founder and president of the Modern Money Network, a research scholar at the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity, and a J.S.D. candidate at Cornell Law School, where his research focuses on the law of money in the internet society.
Coming Soon
Share this Episode
Follow the show and subscribe on your favorite player.
When we talk about debt, it’s not just what someone owes, it’s also that someone has something owed to them. That’s the absurdity of the World Debt Clock. If the entire planet is in debt, who will we pay? Jupiter?
In the second half of our interview with Rohan Grey, he begins with the fact that all money is debt, but the cash in our pockets is not recorded as part of the national debt, which is concerned with debt instruments. He compares a $100 bill and a Treasury note to a checking account and a savings account. Only the latter pays interest.
When Rohan goes through the realities of this secondary market for government debt — wholly a creature of the Fed — it is clear that all worries are for naught. Most T bonds are rolled over, and if someone wants to cash out, there’s always someone else who wants them. If there arises a situation in which nobody wants to buy them, the central bank itself will do so.
The question of government debt comes up whenever there’s talk of the Green New Deal. Some have suggested it be financed by public banks, either because of political calculations or because those proposing it do not understand how money is created and believe we should take advantage of the huge pools of private wealth. Rohan points out the danger of both of those approaches. Lending rather than spending is a trap. If you need to be convinced of that, look no further than the student debt crisis. Rather than fund higher education, we said “let them eat loans!” As for the second option, well, the marrying of corporate financing and the public purpose is a good definition of fascism.
Asking the Green New Deal to give a return on the investment is entirely misguided. Do we ask school children to pay back the cost of their education by the time they turn 18? Do we insist that the military to turn a profit? When we try to turn public service into a revenue-generating endeavor, we distort the entire industry. Profit itself becomes the motive force, and the actual service takes a back seat.
Nowadays it’s impossible to have a conversation with a Modern Money Theorist without talking about the ubiquitous Yang gang and the UBI. Our objection can be summed up in the words of C. H. Douglas, an early creator of the UBI. His goal was to create “a democracy of consumers and an aristocracy of producers.” That says it all, doesn’t it? In their debate with Matt Bruenig in “In These Times,” Raul Carrillo and Rohan Grey expressed the demand for a world where the production process is as democratic and empowering for workers and average people as the consumption process.
Steve Grumbine often speaks of the job guarantee as a democracy enhancer. The community determines which work needs to be done. Democracy at the workplace is just as important as at the ballot box. Steve and Rohan talk about democratizing the fruits of intellectual labor as well as more traditional concepts of work. They address the hysteria about robots replacing all the workers. Certain jobs can be automated, however any job that requires human beings to interact with other human beings, by definition cannot be automated.
Some of our listeners may be surprised to learn that Rohan’s view of the job guarantee is significantly different from Warren Mosler’s. Tune in to find out how.
Rohan Grey is the founder and president of the Modern Money Network, a research scholar at the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity, and a J.S.D. candidate at Cornell Law School, where his research focuses on the law of money in the internet society.
Coming Soon
Episode 110 - Taming the Megabanks with Art Wilmarth
Episode 109 - Institutions with Linwood Tauheed
Episode 108 - Knowledge is Power with Rev. Delman Coates
Episode 107 - We Are Losing the Media War with Jordan Chariton
Episode 106 - Reform or Revolution with Danny Haiphong
Episode 105 - The Case for Scottish Independence with Kairin Van Sweeden
Episode 104 - Focus on the Family with June Carbone
Episode 103 - Anatomy of a Job Guarantee with Fadhel Kaboub
Episode 102 - The Global Scourge of Neoliberalism with Patricia Pino
Episode 101 - Beat Back Better: Organizing in 2021 with Emma Caterine
Episode 100 - Flying with Sara Nelson
Episode 99 - A Modern Debt Jubilee with Steve Keen
Episode 98 - Imminent Collapse with L. Randall Wray
Episode 97 - Solidarity with Joe Burns
Episode 96 - Treasury's Gift To The Fed with Robert Hockett
Episode 95 - The Land Value Tax with Joshua Vincent and Rich Nymoen
Episode 94 - Political Sobriety with Rohan Grey
Episode 93 - The Public Banking Act with Rohan Grey
Episode 92 - Propaganda and the Vortex of Centrism with Esha Krishnaswamy
Episode 91 - Crisis Management with Warren Mosler
Episode 90 - The MMT Sequence with Warren Mosler
Episode 89 - Juxtapositions with Bill Mitchell
Episode 88 - Debt Deflation and the Neofeudal Empire with Michael Hudson
Episode 87 - A Just Transition Through Participatory Governance with Cindy Banyai
Episode 86 - 2020 with Margaret Kimberley
Episode 85 - Shadow Banking with Robert Hockett
Episode 84 - African Sovereignty and a Global Green New Deal with Fadhel Kaboub
Episode 83 - Mutual Credit and the War on Cash with Brett Scott
By visiting our site, you agree to our privacy policy regarding cookies, tracking statistics, etc. Read more